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Post by loukessler on Aug 10, 2015 15:18:05 GMT
Thought I would start an interesting discussion based on if you guys think PCM is parody. Recently I have seen some articles and music journalists talking about PCM music being a 'parody' of pop music or a satire of it. There is definitely an 'ironic' aspect to PCM, seen especially in GFOTY and some of A.G.'s stuff. But is it pure Weird Al style parody? Is it meant to be taken seriously? Or is it just cynicism 4 the the lolz. Are they just poking fun at pop tropes or are they expanding on them? Are they mocking the commercialized-consumerism of modern pop art? Or are they transgressively reveling in it? What do you guys think?
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Post by arlo on Aug 10, 2015 18:17:48 GMT
I think the music can definitely be taken genuinely. I can't fault any listeners for seeing it as pure ironic cynicism, but boy oh boy are they missing out if that's really all they see. Danny L Harle said in an interview that what him and AG Cook initially bonded over was their love for Captain Beefheart, and I can totally see that reflected in their music. While Beefheart is best known for his huge crazy avant-garde compositions (and for good reason, it changed the way people thought about rock music,) he also did some really goofy songs that managed to make fun of then-contemporary pop tropes while making better pop songs than most other artists could dream of making. Here's a good example. Ween (maybe my favorite band of all time) and Ariel Pink have come to do the similar things in more recent years. I highly doubt that PCM would resonate with so many people like it did if it was just a piss take on popular culture. Basically every PC artist showcases some sort of vulnerability in their act, even GFOTY. There's obviously satirical elements in their works, but I don't think it means that there can't be legitimate emotions and sincerity. In a lot of cases, the satire reinforces it.
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Post by ignatz on Aug 10, 2015 20:47:00 GMT
I don't think the line between "genuine" and "satirical" is as well defined as people think. To me PC Music is more self-aware, which can lead to some satirical or parodic elements cause you're basically knowing that what you're doing is silly. The fact that A.G., Danny & Sophie are all Tim & Eric fans is telling, cause it places them firmly outside New Sincerity (irony is for people with dead souls) and Poptimism (pop culture is actually really important and should be revered). Tim & Eric's humor, especially Awesome Show Great Job, is based a lot around taking low-class, trashy, or just bizarre elements of modern life and using them as a vehicle for absurd humor. It's not a stretch to see a gentler version of that in PC Music. That said, I think PCM's comedic stuff is more all-out humorous than just ironic. GFOTY, Spinee, and Lipgloss Twins are probably the most obviously silly in terms of their image. GFOTY's early songs are the only ones that I would say strike me as outright parody. A.G. also has some funny lines in his music like the Odyssey Pt 2 rap.... Lemonade & Hard by Sophie also struck me as satirical right off the bat, at least in the sense that they play modern pop conventions to their extremely absurdist ends - the "lemonade le le lemonade" chant is pretty similar to the Milkshake/My Humps trend of a few years ago when songs were basically aiming to be as dumb and repetitive as possible, and Hard takes the whole sexy-woman-rapping/moaning-about-sex trope, turns it up past the point of making sense ("I just get so hard!!") and makes it this bonkers slapstick BDSM track that is sexual without being erotic. But that's where the whole undefined line thing comes in cause even if those elements were intentional, they're still absolutely killer pop songs, all hooks and brilliantly produced. And then there is QT but my post is already way too long and QT could be 3 more paragraphs I feel like I've ranted about this before, so sorry if I repeat anything I've said in the past, but I think about this a lot.
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Post by bubbling on Aug 10, 2015 22:03:06 GMT
ugh gross.. NO
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Post by loukessler on Aug 10, 2015 22:38:41 GMT
Hard takes the whole sexy-woman-rapping/moaning-about-sex trope, turns it up past the point of making sense ("I just get so hard!!") and makes it this bonkers slapstick BDSM track that is sexual without being erotic. This is one of the things that is so striking about sophie's stuff and a lot of PCM. It is sexual without being erotic. That is kind of mind blowing. There is an asexual quality to it that is really interesting to me. A sort of child like innocence without really poking fun at it.
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Post by flaneur on Aug 10, 2015 23:38:12 GMT
Hard takes the whole sexy-woman-rapping/moaning-about-sex trope, turns it up past the point of making sense ("I just get so hard!!") and makes it this bonkers slapstick BDSM track that is sexual without being erotic. This is one of the things that is so striking about sophie's stuff and a lot of PCM. It is sexual without being erotic. That is kind of mind blowing. There is an asexual quality to it that is really interesting to me. A sort of child like innocence without really poking fun at it. I'm honestly surprised that so few of the mountain of thinkpieces that have been written about SOPHIE and PC Music have approached the lyrical content of the music (especially SOPHIE's, imo) from this angle. As blasé as SOPHIE seems to be toward writing lyrics - I vaguely remember him saying something in an interview about how he'd like to collaborate with someone with a strong inclination toward lyric-writing because he's largely unconcerned with that aspect of music, but I could be making that up - one of the most striking and interesting things about a lot of his music to me is the overt sexuality and fetishism of its lyrics. Hard is the first example that comes to mind for obvious reasons, with GFOTY rapping about leather, PVC, and sex dolls, but When I Rule the World has very overt BDSM themes as well, and even Lemonade skirts fetishistic territory in an unsettling sort of way. Compounded with SOPHIE's intentional gender-bending with his choice of name and affinity for leather and PVC attire at his performances (I love that his merch is going to be puffer jackets, platform shoes, sunglasses, etc.), I really think that fetishism and sexual "deviancy," so to speak, is a major theme of his music that goes mostly ignored. Combining those themes with such bouncy, rubbery pop production and chipmunked vocals definitely gives the music a super engaging uncanny valley sort of vibe.
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Post by bubbling on Aug 11, 2015 0:00:39 GMT
Danny L Harle said in an interview that what him and AG Cook initially bonded over was their love for Captain Beefheart, and I can totally see that reflected in their music. While Beefheart is best known for his huge crazy avant-garde compositions (and for good reason, it changed the way people thought about rock music,) he also did some really goofy songs that managed to make fun of then-contemporary pop tropes while making better pop songs than most other artists could dream of making. The fact that A.G., Danny & Sophie are all Tim & Eric fans is telling, cause it places them firmly outside New Sincerity (irony is for people with dead souls) and Poptimism (pop culture is actually really important and should be revered). Tim & Eric's humor, especially Awesome Show Great Job, is based a lot around taking low-class, trashy, or just bizarre elements of modern life and using them as a vehicle for absurd humor. It's not a stretch to see a gentler version of that in PC Music. lol @ "well these ppl from PCM enjoy x, y & z SO that totally 100 percent means __________________________________________________________________________." so presumptuous & SUCH a reach.. >.<;;
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Post by dr on Aug 11, 2015 0:20:26 GMT
lol @ "well these ppl from PCM enjoy x, y & z SO that totally 100 percent means __________________________________________________________________________." so presumptuous & SUCH a reach.. >.<;; Yo bubbly u gonna actually explain ur issues w/ above statements or u just tryna take shots at ppl and and 'lol' Like yeah none of us know the artists personally so a lot of this is speculation but this discussion is still more edifying than 90% of the PC thinkpieces I've read
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Post by ignatz on Aug 11, 2015 1:14:40 GMT
What sort of presumptive shit for brains discusses artists' stated influences in a thread labelled "discussion thread"..... >.<;;;;; indeed.
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Post by bubbling on Aug 11, 2015 1:16:36 GMT
lol @ "well these ppl from PCM enjoy x, y & z SO that totally 100 percent means __________________________________________________________________________." so presumptuous & SUCH a reach.. >.<;; Yo bubbly u gonna actually explain ur issues w/ above statements or u just tryna take shots at ppl and and 'lol' Like yeah none of us know the artists personally so a lot of this is speculation but this discussion is still more edifying than 90% of the PC thinkpieces I've read no, because its inherently silly to presume that people from PCM -- or anyone for that matter -- are anything THAT in depth solely based off the fact that they like a tv show or a band.. itd be a waste of my time to try to explain how silly it is to make up some extensive gross detailed theory about how PCM isnt 'new sincerity' just because they enjoy japanese pop music, & a very popular tv show that millions of all kinds of different ppl enjoy.. its not even good speculation & i feel gross for even writing that much about this but u sucked me into it
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Post by loukessler on Aug 11, 2015 2:10:23 GMT
Danny L Harle said in an interview that what him and AG Cook initially bonded over was their love for Captain Beefheart, and I can totally see that reflected in their music. While Beefheart is best known for his huge crazy avant-garde compositions (and for good reason, it changed the way people thought about rock music,) he also did some really goofy songs that managed to make fun of then-contemporary pop tropes while making better pop songs than most other artists could dream of making. The fact that A.G., Danny & Sophie are all Tim & Eric fans is telling, cause it places them firmly outside New Sincerity (irony is for people with dead souls) and Poptimism (pop culture is actually really important and should be revered). Tim & Eric's humor, especially Awesome Show Great Job, is based a lot around taking low-class, trashy, or just bizarre elements of modern life and using them as a vehicle for absurd humor. It's not a stretch to see a gentler version of that in PC Music. lol @ "well these ppl from PCM enjoy x, y & z SO that totally 100 percent means __________________________________________________________________________." so presumptuous & SUCH a reach.. >.<;;
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Post by bubbling on Aug 11, 2015 2:27:28 GMT
wellll, im not trying to act like im above it..i love pcm as much as anyone here. just dont wanna waste each others time if it isnt gonna go anywhere when its realllly simple. it doesnt make sense how someone can say "oh xx enjoys j-pop & an extremely popular tv show" that probs means this very specific theory on where they stand on "poptimism" & explains how asexual they're lyrics can be.
its really really hard to get from point a to point b there..
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Post by loro on Aug 11, 2015 3:11:15 GMT
wellll, im not trying to act like im above it..i love pcm as much as anyone here. just dont wanna waste each others time if it isnt gonna go anywhere when its realllly simple. it doesnt make sense how someone can say "oh xx enjoys j-pop & an extremely popular tv show" that probs means this very specific theory on where they stand on "poptimism" & explains how asexual they're lyrics can be. its really really hard to get from point a to point b there.. Sure, but this discussion is centered on whether or not PC Music is a parody of contemporary pop music culture, and in the broader cultural scheme of things, it would be kinda disingenuous not to acknowledge e.g. both T&E and JPop as sort of...niche interests. Although each, yes, has appeal to a lot of people, they still exist as influences, and can be characterized as much by what distances them from the total mainstream as by how "extremely popular" they are, as you put it. Especially when those distinctive properties have so much apparent overlap with those of PCM. Are SOPHIE, Cook et al. capable of accessing a wide range of tones and intents through their music, of their own will? Totally! But it's not wrong, I don't think, to grasp at the philosophies behind their multiple influences, and then to triangulate from there what statements their music is making, from some basic-and-not-really-overreaching surface-level observations. And sometimes there might not be anything to really analyze in that way, you're right. Sometimes there might not be any statement behind a PCM song! but again, the very nature of aesthetic-first-commentary-later content becomes a commonality shared between the music and Tim & Eric's comedy, and -- since this discussion is about categorization and how to categorize PC Music -- that information is useful.
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Post by Xian on Aug 11, 2015 9:21:17 GMT
In the words of A.G.Cook - "authenticity is a tricky currency"
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Post by jesus lawd on Aug 11, 2015 18:06:43 GMT
Yo bubbly u gonna actually explain ur issues w/ above statements or u just tryna take shots at ppl and and 'lol' Like yeah none of us know the artists personally so a lot of this is speculation but this discussion is still more edifying than 90% of the PC thinkpieces I've read no, because its inherently silly to presume that people from PCM -- or anyone for that matter -- are anything THAT in depth solely based off the fact that they like a tv show or a band.. itd be a waste of my time to try to explain how silly it is to make up some extensive gross detailed theory about how PCM isnt 'new sincerity' just because they enjoy japanese pop music, & a very popular tv show that millions of all kinds of different ppl enjoy.. its not even good speculation & i feel gross for even writing that much about this but u sucked me into it This is like when that kid in class says "how do we know that's what they meant, or even thought about when they were writing this?" But that's the point of analyzing something, its effect and impact doesn't stop at authorial intent. They're just drawing comparisons broooo ooooooo
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