Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 23:21:58 GMT
I think people don't have to have an opinion about everything, so my opinion in this topic is null. I guess not having an opinion is an opinion in itself, though.
Well, people are reading too much into it.
|
|
|
Post by jamie on Nov 3, 2015 23:37:27 GMT
agreed, the name is kind of irrelevant. although, paired up with the older press images one could be forgiven for thinking SOPHIE was a girl. edit: also, pre-QT Hayden Dunham in his Just Jam set.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 0:09:45 GMT
I mean, SOPHIE isn't even gay, as far as I know. Maybe he was really trying to break this really """masculine""" aspect of EDM, by being a male artist with a """female""" name attached to it.
There is no reason to speculate about something that the artist himself haven't talked about yet. Maybe SOPHIE is a persona, the same way GFOTY is and the same way mthws was. He's not offending anyone, he's making good music, he did nothing to denigrate the female presence in the EDM scene by using a """female""" stage name.
Still think people are reading too much into it.
|
|
|
Post by OnMePhone on Nov 4, 2015 0:23:02 GMT
I agree with the sentiment but 'Tumblr' has become such a vague term for general 'left' politics you disagree with that it's basically meaningless at this point...
|
|
|
Post by ¬ on Nov 4, 2015 0:43:28 GMT
There are sooo many problems with this (its horseshit thinkpiece writers, thirsty to shout Problematic to the cool new thing? thought up for content, like most pc misconceptions, basically) but just one thing that gets my egg up is that calling the scene out for """feminine appropriation""" totally ignores the pivotal roles of Hannah Diamond, Hayden Dunham to the actual visual aspects to it, as well as obviously GFOTY, Raffy, Spinee, etc. for the musical. Which in itself seems 'problematic' af...
I do wish SOPHIE and easyFun especially would credit their vocalists, because they rly do an excellent job, but I seriously doubt we would be hearinh them if they didnt mind their way of releasing things. Ye gender politics in music in general has a long way to go but its sus that its suddenly PCM's job to Fix Things because someone said they were cool
|
|
|
Post by ugh on Nov 4, 2015 1:01:34 GMT
Its infuriatingly stupid. I think of it as a prime exhibit of the idiot, reverse-shaming, tumblr mindset that is spreading like a plague because of the internet. I can't believe that people think its "fucked up" for a person to express their femininity through art without being a woman. Sophie has given us practically no information about himself, his identity, his views or why he even does what he does. Pretty sure all of it has just been kind of leaked and found out over time. So who's to say whether he is 'appropriating femininity' or not? Maybe you could argue that its appropriation if someone like Tiesto started doing stuff along the same lines
And I guess its up in the air because no one really knows the motives behind his style and imagery. I'd like to think that all of it is likely used as an appreciation of femininity, so wouldn't that make it a such a bad thing? Because If he is bringing femininity into electronic music doesn't that mean he is promoting it by showing us how cool it can be? He gained so much popularity while people thought he was a female producer, so I think you could also argue that he actually carved a path for more female producers to follow.
|
|
|
Post by champiness on Nov 4, 2015 1:14:31 GMT
I think PC Music gets a lot of unnecessary flack about their politics and I'm confident that much of it is rooted in people disliking the music and constructing something else worth complaining about around it - bashing an organization that's foregrounding its femininity and the active role of women in its artistic process because it also involves men is facile and even pretty wrongheaded if you stop to think about it for a second, but it's also very easy to do and hard to respond to without playing into the "hipsters defending contemptible music with nonstop rhetoric" narrative, so it's a useful line to throw if you want to express your distaste for the music in more concrete terms than "it's just dumb" (and I can understand the impulse to have a stronger foundation for your dislike of the music than that, although when I feel it I'm content to rely on Marcello Carlin's " bad for music=bad for humanity in general" worldview, especially since it requires you to stop and assess whether "music I don't enjoy" equates to "bad for music" in each case). That said the "hipsters defending contemptible music with nonstop rhetoric" stereotype exists for a reason, and part of it is that the breed of music fan that associates with the Pitchfork/"on-trend" bubble PCM are undoubtedly within is rather... criticism-averse once it's decided en masse that it likes something, and sometimes genuinely nasty things can slip through that gap in critical thought. The unilateral condemnation of GFOTY's half-baked "joke about racism" tweet on the part of everyone who could be said to represent PC Music (including GFOTY herself, to be fair) was incredibly reassuring, though as reassuring as it was it was equally off-putting to see the "die-hards" dogpiling on Lotic for being "attention-hungry" or whatever after he criticized the tweet for all the reasons it genuinely should have offended him (though to be fair those complaints did come packaged with some of the ones about imaginary strawman PC Music that we're all so familiar with, including what I mentioned above). We as fans have a responsibility to not be defensive jerks about criticism just because it's been unfounded sometimes in the past. Of course, as I mentioned that's largely been the case so far, so I still have no reservations about saying that the internet should pick some other targets for awhile.
|
|
|
Post by champiness on Nov 4, 2015 1:20:27 GMT
As for SOPHIE: love him to bits, wouldn't change a thing, but the parallel timeline where he turned out to be a girl it just objectively better because we need more prominent female producers. That said the mystery around him struck me more as a female-coded "is SOPHIE even human" than one specifically about whether they were a boy or a girl. Certainly "Bipp" seemed more like an alien appropriating femininity than some guy from Northampton doing it (though I was always prepared for the "some guy from Northampton" outcome, depressingly).
|
|
|
Post by OnMePhone on Nov 4, 2015 1:20:48 GMT
I think PC Music gets a lot of unnecessary flack about their politics and I'm confident that much of it is rooted in people disliking the music and constructing something else worth complaining about around it - bashing an organization that's foregrounding its femininity and the active role of women in its artistic process because it also involves men is facile and even pretty wrongheaded if you stop to think about it for a second, but it's also very easy to do and hard to respond to without playing into the "hipsters defending contemptible music with nonstop rhetoric" narrative, so it's a useful line to throw if you want to express your distaste for the music in more concrete terms than "it's just dumb" (and I can understand the impulse to have a stronger foundation for your dislike of the music than that, although when I feel it I'm content to rely on Marcello Carlin's " bad for music=bad for humanity in general" worldview, especially since it requires you to stop and assess whether "music I don't enjoy" equates to "bad for music" in each case). That said the "hipsters defending contemptible music with nonstop rhetoric" stereotype exists for a reason, and part of it is that the breed of music fan that associates with the Pitchfork/"on-trend" bubble PCM are undoubtedly within is rather... criticism-averse once it's decided en masse that it likes something, and sometimes genuinely nasty things can slip through that gap in critical thought. The unilateral condemnation of GFOTY's half-baked "joke about racism" tweet on the part of everyone who could be said to represent PC Music (including GFOTY herself, to be fair) was incredibly reassuring, though as reassuring as it was it was equally off-putting to see the "die-hards" dogpiling on Lotic for being "attention-hungry" or whatever after he criticized the tweet for all the reasons it genuinely should have offended him (though to be fair those complaints did come packaged with some of the ones about imaginary strawman PC Music that we're all so familiar with, including what I mentioned above). We as fans have a responsibility to not be defensive jerks about criticism just because it's been unfounded sometimes in the past. Of course, as I mentioned that's largely been the case so far, so I still have no reservations about saying that the internet should pick some other targets for awhile. <3 <3 <3 thank you, you summed this up so well (as always) Do you have a blog or similar where I could read more of your writing? Almost all of the stuff you say is on point tbh
|
|
|
Post by friopi on Nov 4, 2015 2:05:16 GMT
I got about halfway through a lengthy reply and then accidentally closed the tab and now it's gone -_-
Basically, I was very disappointed in both of these articles for failing discuss a complicated topic with the nuance it deserves. The first one erases the contributions of the women involved in PC Music, while the second one completely throws away the (IMO potentially useful) idea of appropriating/exploiting femininity as "overly politically correct tumblr nonsense." My own views fall somewhere in between and if I have time I'll come back and write them out again.
|
|
|
Post by Keith_Courage on Nov 4, 2015 2:28:38 GMT
For all we know Sophie is Sam's middle name or a childhood nickname or the name of his sister or a character from a book he likes. Its so presumptuous for these writers to assume they know Sam's intentions and then use it as a means to go on some social-justice crusade. It comes off really antagonizing and ego-inflated while offering no real solution or sound argument.
|
|
|
Post by friopi on Nov 4, 2015 2:30:19 GMT
Ugh still so mad my mini-essay got erased. No time but just wanna say let's not forget about the whole Boiler Room incident as we're talking about all this.
|
|
|
Post by -- on Nov 4, 2015 2:39:29 GMT
I think that anyone making an article about Sophie or any PCM artist that isn't related to their music or about their music is really irrelevant. PCM isn't that big in the EDM community that it's blocking females. Grimes isn't really big outside of the hipster side of Tumblr. The artists on PCM are pretty much a mystery and they aren't these idols or anything even a persona wouldn't be quite it. They are making music and then letting it be about music and not about celebrity. I'm glad this is coming up cause it shows people's lack of ability to understand. But also if we are really fans and we are heavily educated in such a subject we should be tweeting the writer so they can actually understand. That article is just a way to hop on the "this is problematic" trend that liberal white kids, who read way too much into things and sit on tumblr saying "this is important" on posts that aren't really important, do. And again Gromes isn't that big of a celebrity to actually have an opinion. She's still unknown despite her video views. SOPHIE and other PCM artists on the other hand are actually making a name through the EDM community. It's building up. Any article that mentions anything besides the music that PCM artists are making is completely IRRELEVANT and we shouldn't give it the time of day. Grimes doesn't even make EDM music to even mention SOPHIE.
That's just how I see it.
|
|
KristenStewartSmokingWeed
Guest
|
Post by KristenStewartSmokingWeed on Nov 4, 2015 2:42:28 GMT
Using a girl's voice (even if it was a young one) for that one short interview and using that (i think) Drag Queen for that one live performance both in early SOPHIE days should definitely be part of this discussion.
|
|
|
Post by Keith_Courage on Nov 4, 2015 2:53:35 GMT
I think those were red herrings so he could play into people's expectations of him being a woman, since that's what everyone immediately assumed. I think he's playing with the assumption that certain names or objects, etc. have roles and expectations, and by conforming to them he was in actuality rendering them meaningless. Also I think once more people figured out that he was a guy, he stopped doing that charade.
|
|