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h8ers
May 10, 2015 10:24:23 GMT
Post by ignatz on May 10, 2015 10:24:23 GMT
Yes, but it's supplementary to the music, in my opinion. It isn't what keeps them relevant. There is a big difference to me in how someone like GFOTY or Hannah Diamond uses social media than with how a big star like Beyonce or Gaga (and their PR team) use it. wuchi: Agreed, and also lol'd at your last line although I think "Seasons" is one of the best pop songs ever. That tuuuune... the chorus drives me crazy.
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Post by loukessler on May 10, 2015 15:49:25 GMT
Fantano going in. Thoughts? I mean, at the end of the day, I think whether it's derivative or generic or whatever doesn't really matter because PCM is still one of the most enjoyable, exciting things I've ever listened to, and it seems a lot of people don't want to acknowledge how successful the music is in generating that ecstatic/euphoric feeling. I was gonna actually mention fantano in a my last post. I think he would fall under "not being ready for the level of ambiguity in music." He is a very intelligent and is a great music critic but the fact that he doesn't "get" PCM makes me think we are just way too different for me to take his reviews seriously. What solidifies this argument for me is he gave the Kendrick Lamar release a 10/10. If thats what you think the cutting edge of music looks like in 2015, I'm sorry but you are just wrong. I won't even go into why I don't like if from a musical stand point but rather where I think it stands as a piece of contemporary art. It ends with a fake spoken word interview with 2pac talking about political and social unrest in this country. It goes on for like 5 minutes. It is about as fun as lecture on paint drying. Not to mention this preaching is coming from a christian stand point. Not there is anything inherently wrong with this, I actually love what he did with his first album in regard to that, but I think preachy, religious, moral-hand holding in 2015 is played out, for me at least. We failed to head the call of protest music from the 60s-90s and PCM acknowledges that in its ambiguity. It is not going to hold your hand, or try and save the world, but it is going to make you dance and have fun, which is what music is about despite what fantano and RA will tell you. Not that there should be no social or political commentary in music, I just don't think it as the forefront of where music/art is going.
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h8ers
May 10, 2015 16:15:32 GMT
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Post by nicogrund on May 10, 2015 16:15:32 GMT
Fantano going in. Thoughts? I mean, at the end of the day, I think whether it's derivative or generic or whatever doesn't really matter because PCM is still one of the most enjoyable, exciting things I've ever listened to, and it seems a lot of people don't want to acknowledge how successful the music is in generating that ecstatic/euphoric feeling. I was gonna actually mention fantano in a my last post. I think he would fall under "not being ready for the level of ambiguity in music." He is a very intelligent and is a great music critic but the fact that he doesn't "get" PCM makes me think we are just way too different for me to take his reviews seriously. What solidifies this argument for me is he gave the Kendrick Lamar release a 10/10. If thats what you think the cutting edge of music looks like in 2015, I'm sorry but you are just wrong. I won't even go into why I don't like if from a musical stand point but rather where I think it stands as a piece of contemporary art. It ends with a fake spoken word interview with 2pac talking about political and social unrest in this country. It goes on for like 5 minutes. It is about as fun as lecture on paint drying. Not to mention this preaching is coming from a christian stand point. Not there is anything inherently wrong with this, I actually love what he did with his first album in regard to that, but I think preachy, religious, moral-hand holding in 2015 is played out, for me at least. We failed to head the call of protest music from the 60s-90s and PCM acknowledges that in its ambiguity. It is not going to hold your hand, or try and save the world, but it is going to make you dance and have fun, which is what music is about despite what fantano and RA will tell you. Not that there should be no social or political commentary in music, I just don't think it as the forefront of where music/art is going. Good point, although I think Kendrick's album was really solid from a lyrical, musical and technological standpoint, but it was looking much more towards the past than it was towards the future and probably didn't deserve the coveted 10/10 from Fantano. Also I do think that there is certainly a social commentary aspect to PCM which a lot of other forum users have elaborated upon in great depth in this thread and the henrik the artist thread. I also think that a lot of music is heading towards the direction of social and political commentary, but in a much more nuanced and subtle way than Kendrick and his heavy-handed morality/social consciousness - look at Jam City and Holly Herndon for example (although I'll admit that both do come across as a bit preachy in interviews, I think their music avoids this). I just wanted to mention that RA, at least from an editorial standpoint and particularly from writers like Andrew Ryce, seem to be really supportive of PC Music and the primary backlash comes from the RA-user community. RA as a site is trying to make people pay attention to PCM and it seems like the RA community is rejecting this in its entirety. Once again, some might see this as an example of music journalists trying to manufacture hype up over a buzzworthy trend or, in RA's case, an attempt to attract a larger audience to the site, but I think that RA writers genuinely enjoy the music and take themselves a lot less seriously than the "serious electronic music connoisseurs" that frequent RA, which prevents those RA users from appreciating the fun, visceral pleasure of PCM.
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h8ers
May 10, 2015 16:25:32 GMT
Post by loukessler on May 10, 2015 16:25:32 GMT
Even Jam City and Holly Herndon get a little too preachy for my tastes, albeit they are more nuanced than most.
I really don't get the hype for that Kendrick album. It was way overproduced. It was desperately trying to not be hip-hop, which is what kendrick does best. And his delivery does not fit the jazz-funk style for me. And don't get my started on the half assed poems at the end of each song or the "love your self!" message. yikes. I love all the influences on that album, james brown, funkadelic, the isely brothers, etc, but I never really wanted to see Kendrick in that style. Artists can change and grow be he was reaching a little bit on that one.
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h8ers
May 10, 2015 19:19:10 GMT
Post by MOUTHWOOEDHER on May 10, 2015 19:19:10 GMT
<this is too long, sorry, i don't wanna make people scroll for a long time> all the criticism i see from people like him really rubs me the wrong way. it seems like they're out to "get" them (jealousy? ignorance?) and just have a strong distaste for pop. there's this weird pop aversion you see all over the internet, with people posting all over youtube how justin bieber sucks or nicki minaj sucks and it drives me up the wall. pop doesn't suck! pop has nuance! it's fun! what's fucking wrong with having fun? femininity is good. masculinity is good. none is better than the other and there's nothing wrong with straight men wanting to be more feminine music or anything like that Its interesting you say you feel the internet has this weird pop aversion. I actually feel the opposite. People talk about Taylor Swift these days in the same breath as someone like Frank Ocean. One is very carefully manufactured pop, the other is just popular. Pop is so big right now, I can't really tell the difference between what is "indie" music and what is "mainstream" Everyone is having a love affair with pop. Personally thats what makes PC music so interesting to me, its such a new idea of what pop can be. Its both aggressive and fun, simplistic and complex. It doesn't really sound like just a group of friends who like to make fun music. they're art students, they sound like they'd be art students. Even the way Sophie talks about concept dictating sound
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h8ers
May 10, 2015 22:56:51 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 22:56:51 GMT
Yes, but it's supplementary to the music, in my opinion. It isn't what keeps them relevant. There is a big difference to me in how someone like GFOTY or Hannah Diamond uses social media than with how a big star like Beyonce or Gaga (and their PR team) use it. wuchi: Agreed, and also lol'd at your last line although I think "Seasons" is one of the best pop songs ever. That tuuuune... the chorus drives me crazy. But GFOTY and Hannah Diamond post way more on twitter than Beyonce does! I'm not trying to be nit-picky or anything I'm just a little confused on what you mean I guess. Beyonce is way more relevant due to her hits than her instagram or twitter. Of course, Beyonce and anything she posts on instagram will (most likely) garner way more attention and be more "relevant" in pop culture than something GFOTY or Hannah did because of course Beyonce is just much more well-known. I definitely don't disagree they use social media in different ways but I just feel like the difference is that Hannah and GFOTY use their social media a lot and it helps keep them on the map on the internet where (this isn't my personal opinion but) they could lose the little relevancy they have in just a few months or something; on the otherhand, Beyonce only has 8 tweets on twitter because her music isn't gonna lose it's relevancy anytime soon! I'm not like trashing on PC Music at all because I love how PC Music is thriving on social media! I just definitely think social media is a pretty important aspect of what they're doing right now. I mean for any musical artist social media is gonna be supplementary to the music; however, PC Music is doing a lot more on social media to stay relevant than the likes of Beyonce.
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h8ers
May 11, 2015 0:32:38 GMT
Post by lovergirlsprecinct on May 11, 2015 0:32:38 GMT
Yes, but it's supplementary to the music, in my opinion. It isn't what keeps them relevant. There is a big difference to me in how someone like GFOTY or Hannah Diamond uses social media than with how a big star like Beyonce or Gaga (and their PR team) use it. wuchi: Agreed, and also lol'd at your last line although I think "Seasons" is one of the best pop songs ever. That tuuuune... the chorus drives me crazy. But GFOTY and Hannah Diamond post way more on twitter than Beyonce does! I'm not trying to be nit-picky or anything I'm just a little confused on what you mean I guess. Beyonce is way more relevant due to her hits than her instagram or twitter. Of course, Beyonce and anything she posts on instagram will (most likely) garner way more attention and be more "relevant" in pop culture than something GFOTY or Hannah did because of course Beyonce is just much more well-known. I definitely don't disagree they use social media in different ways but I just feel like the difference is that Hannah and GFOTY use their social media a lot and it helps keep them on the map on the internet where (this isn't my personal opinion but) they could lose the little relevancy they have in just a few months or something; on the otherhand, Beyonce only has 8 tweets on twitter because her music isn't gonna lose it's relevancy anytime soon! I'm not like trashing on PC Music at all because I love how PC Music is thriving on social media! I just definitely think social media is a pretty important aspect of what they're doing right now. I mean for any musical artist social media is gonna be supplementary to the music; however, PC Music is doing a lot more on social media to stay relevant than the likes of Beyonce. I feel like Hannah Diamond, QT and, to a lesser extent, GFOTY are the only PC Music artists who really use their social media accounts as a part of their persona or a way to keep themselves relevant. But I feel like this is something that's going to get bigger, especially with Hannah. I mean, she had that introduction video thing and now she has a snapchat account, and then there's whatever that Pop Cube video series turns out to actually be. But, I don't know, I think apart from Hannah and QT, I don't really see the social media accounts as really adding much to their relevancy. Like you could easily not know that GFOTY or Danny even have Instagram accounts and they just seem like more personal, I guess "out of character" things. But I don't really go on Instagram that much, so feel free to correct me.
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h8ers
May 11, 2015 1:51:12 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 1:51:12 GMT
But GFOTY and Hannah Diamond post way more on twitter than Beyonce does! I'm not trying to be nit-picky or anything I'm just a little confused on what you mean I guess. Beyonce is way more relevant due to her hits than her instagram or twitter. Of course, Beyonce and anything she posts on instagram will (most likely) garner way more attention and be more "relevant" in pop culture than something GFOTY or Hannah did because of course Beyonce is just much more well-known. I definitely don't disagree they use social media in different ways but I just feel like the difference is that Hannah and GFOTY use their social media a lot and it helps keep them on the map on the internet where (this isn't my personal opinion but) they could lose the little relevancy they have in just a few months or something; on the otherhand, Beyonce only has 8 tweets on twitter because her music isn't gonna lose it's relevancy anytime soon! I'm not like trashing on PC Music at all because I love how PC Music is thriving on social media! I just definitely think social media is a pretty important aspect of what they're doing right now. I mean for any musical artist social media is gonna be supplementary to the music; however, PC Music is doing a lot more on social media to stay relevant than the likes of Beyonce. I feel like Hannah Diamond, QT and, to a lesser extent, GFOTY are the only PC Music artists who really use their social media accounts as a part of their persona or a way to keep themselves relevant. But I feel like this is something that's going to get bigger, especially with Hannah. I mean, she had that introduction video thing and now she has a snapchat account, and then there's whatever that Pop Cube video series turns out to actually be. But, I don't know, I think apart from Hannah and QT, I don't really see the social media accounts as really adding much to their relevancy. Like you could easily not know that GFOTY or Danny even have Instagram accounts and they just seem like more personal, I guess "out of character" things. But I don't really go on Instagram that much, so feel free to correct me. Hmm I see, but also Hannah Diamond used periscope to broadcast parts of her performance which is a new social media that's just starting to be utilized! I think I'm just misunderstanding or misinterpreting what you guys are saying to be honest. I'm not saying PC Music would be irrelevant as a whole if they didn't use social media; however, in my opinion it's obvious they're really using it to their advantage to give themselves a name and brand. GFOTY made a cooking video for christs sake aha! It appears to me they're working just as hard (or harder) to get "their" popstars out there on social media. They're not as famous so obviously you're not GOING to know they have social media accounts but just like any pop fanbase as soon as you get that twinkle in your eye and start really loving them you're gonna look up their names on instagram and twitter to find their accounts! Someone on this forum literally went and found their personal facebooks! I get that PC Music is more underground EDM dance music; however, their going down the road of pop music and that means they'll become distinct idols for people. Also a lot of their beginning success seemed to stem from people being extremely interested in the websites that were created for each individual release. PC Music seems like a very multimedia based project (including social media) to me. Overall, I'm really just trying to say that I think they put a lot of thought into what they do on the various social media sites and it might not be as formal as some extremely famous popstar's PR team; however, I do remember people saying that PC Music's SXSW showcase information release was through a PR company so one day it might get there. If anything they just seem so much more interactive as people on social media than popstars can be which is endearing and has kept me looking at their twitter accounts and instagrams and staying relevant in my mind. EDIT :I guess I just feel the opposite of you guys in a way. For me, Beyonce's music, by itself standing alone, is extremely relevant; however, I don't look at her twitter or instragram at all honestly. PC Music's music is becoming more relevant but isn't entirely well-known and I'm more inclined to look at their twitters/instagrams/videos/websites/facebooks/periscope/etc daily than a lot of the mainstream popstars I like. EDIT2: Also the original post I quoted had something about QT only having one song, one backstory, one photo etc. yet QT has been quite the user of instagram and twitter! That's the type of thing I'm talking about. After awhile I rarely ever put on Hey QT because I had heard it so many times and needed a break from it yet I still checked their instagram and twitter daily because they're always posting content! I do recognize there was a time before QT's twitter and instagram existed tho and the song was all there was.
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Post by fantasma on May 11, 2015 4:58:12 GMT
Found this on the net
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h8ers
May 11, 2015 5:45:32 GMT
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Post by ignatz on May 11, 2015 5:45:32 GMT
@shitdog I feel like you're discussing a completely different point than the one I was trying to make. It's not that visual aspects are unimportant to PC Music artists or social media isn't part of what makes following the label a fun experience. It's that people criticize the label for being nothing but recycled ideas sold in cool packaging, but their initial rise came on the strength of songs without music videos or PR pushes. And while some of the label's stars might use social media, the ratio of followers to song listens is heavily skewed - GFOTY has 4k Twitter followers, Spinee has almost 1.5k, but the Dog Food mix has 42k listens on Soundcloud.
When I mentioned QT, I specifically said when the song first dropped because that's when it really was just a pic/song, yet it created possibly the biggest buzz of any PC Music related release so far. So really - despite what people say - it can't just be all about the image.
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Post by lovergirlsprecinct on May 11, 2015 10:18:08 GMT
I'm looking back over the comments on those RA articles and I honestly can't get over how just overwrought and ridiculous some of them are. Like how boring do you have to be to get that riled up over some fun pop music?
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h8ers
May 11, 2015 12:16:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by nicogrund on May 11, 2015 12:16:19 GMT
I'm looking back over the comments on those RA articles and I honestly can't over how just overwrought and ridiculous some of them are. Like how boring do you have to be to get that riled up over some fun pop music? Not to defend what the RA users are saying but it seems like although some completely despise the music, others are more angry by the fact that RA are covering it in the first place and feel like pop, underground EDM nature of PCM doesn't belong on RA. But, if RA is a home for good electronic music, then PCM definitely belongs there. It's just in a completely different form from what RA users have grown accustomed to. Also not sure if you guys have seen the RA review of PCM Vol. 1: www.residentadvisor.net/review-view.aspx?id=17000I like how the review touches upon the meaning behind PCM but emphasizes that ultimately "they're just there to have fun". However, the reviewer kind of ignores that latter statement when he criticizes the Pop Cube trailers - which are essentially just silly and fun. I do think that he's kinda got a point when he labels QT as clunky corporate critique - so far QT's kinda just holding up an ironic mirror to capitalism which could be a lot more effective in it's critique if it were more constructive and approached the critique with a viewpoint that challenges capitalism rather than just reflecting it (I think this point has already been made quite a lot about PCM in general though). But once again QT doesn't really have any obligation to be anything other than what it wants to be and the whole project kinda just boils down to a fun, tongue in cheek look at corporate marketing and capitalism. I mean, we can hope it becomes something more than that but we can't be disappointed with what it is as QT never pretended to be anything other than what it is in the first place.
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Post by lovergirlsprecinct on May 11, 2015 13:13:08 GMT
Not to defend what the RA users are saying but it seems like although some completely despise the music, others are more angry by the fact that RA are covering it in the first place and feel like pop, underground EDM nature of PCM doesn't belong on RA. But, if RA is a home for good electronic music, then PCM definitely belongs there. It's just in a completely different form from what RA users have grown accustomed to. Yeah I get what you mean, that's the thing, I feel like it does deserve coverage there. As much as it is pop music, it's still experimental. Just look at Don't Wanna/Let's Do It or Wannabe. But, seriously, at the end of the day who cares? If you don't like PC Music, don't read the articles. If they want to talk about why they think PC Music is bad, they should do it constructively, instead of turning it into some rabbid circlejerk of whose the coolest. I don't know, my point is just that stupid elitism like that really rubs me the wrong way, and it's something that's really heavily present in a lot of different "underground music communities". For people who obviously think highly of their own intelligence, I find their behaviour to be kinda anti-intellectual. A lot of them are eschewing constructive and mature criticism and discussion for immature dick waving and hyperbole. This isn't really a complaint just about their whole reaction to PC Music, but rather the mentality of that set as a whole. That RA community, and a lot of underground techno/dance music fans, are so painfully up themselves. Like, it's really quite pathetic to see them all clamor over each other to win the most cool points or to shut down anyone they disagree with. I literally cringed when I saw that one comment on the PCM Vol 1 review where that person had stalked that guy's personal details to prove that he was "secretly hired to like PC Music" or whatever. Like, grow up.
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Post by loukessler on May 11, 2015 14:29:30 GMT
It's kind of true of any fanbase that gets emotionally attached to the 'scene' and music. Try calling phish a bunch of no talent hacks to some phish-heads. They will act like you just ate their firstborn child. It's kind of similar to the "I listen to real music, like if you hate Justin Beiber and want to go back to Led Zeppelin." meme that goes around. People thinking really highly of their "taste" and developing an emotional connection to something that should just be about fun or done because you like it. It should not get so intertwined with your identity that you take personal offense when someone criticizes it. The other thing I don't get is why people get mad when RA wants to expand their readership. The only goal of any online media is to get more readers, not less. Maybe there will be a PCMAdvisor one day and then we can complain when they start to cover something that we don't see as 'relevant'.
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h8ers
May 11, 2015 15:58:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 15:58:26 GMT
@shitdog I feel like you're discussing a completely different point than the one I was trying to make. It's not that visual aspects are unimportant to PC Music artists or social media isn't part of what makes following the label a fun experience. It's that people criticize the label for being nothing but recycled ideas sold in cool packaging, but their initial rise came on the strength of songs without music videos or PR pushes. And while some of the label's stars might use social media, the ratio of followers to song listens is heavily skewed - GFOTY has 4k Twitter followers, Spinee has almost 1.5k, but the Dog Food mix has 42k listens on Soundcloud. When I mentioned QT, I specifically said when the song first dropped because that's when it really was just a pic/song, yet it created possibly the biggest buzz of any PC Music related release so far. So really - despite what people say - it can't just be all about the image. Fair enough! I'm sorry haha I was just really confused at first! To be fair though, their initial rise was aligned with the same rise of the inclusion of their extreme amount of website pages/designs which I would personally see as a type of music video experience! I do get what you are saying though; however, Beyonce has 14M twitter followers but for one of her songs like Love On Top she has 181,155,833 views on YouTube. Listens and followers rarely line-up! PC Music definitely isn't old pop music repackaged with a new aesthetic though if that's your main argument I definitely agree. I think I agree with you very much because I'm not on the side that thinks PC Music is just recycling pop music or something; however, I guess we do split roads at their rise to fame because in my opinion I think tons of what got them first recognized was how visually distinct they were and how they used webpages as (in my eyes) visual experiences very similar to music videos. In reality, imagery+media and their music are so intertwined that it's kinda hard to even debate this! It would be really hard to weigh out how much of their popularity came from straight listening to their music and straight imagery because almost always you would be experiencing these things at the same time on one of their designed webpages. I honestly do think they first took off because they had an extremely interesting and bizarre aesthetic AND good music.
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