a_M
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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h8ers
Oct 10, 2014 11:55:21 GMT
Post by a_M on Oct 10, 2014 11:55:21 GMT
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h8ers
Oct 10, 2014 12:31:28 GMT
Post by tbsjordan on Oct 10, 2014 12:31:28 GMT
I can see how it isn't for everyone, but people shouldn't really diss it because they don't get. It's pop music, if someone doesn't like pop to begin with, they probably won't like this. I think most people love it because it is fun, exciting, challenging, and aesthetically stimulating. Nevermind the fact that these are some of the best songs of the year. But, some people will not see it that way, and that is fine too.
I can definitely see this entering the mainstream in the next year or so, I hadn't saw that Target Ad, really cool though.
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Post by missmerboy on Oct 10, 2014 13:11:14 GMT
I honestly feel a big deal of the backlash, especially on a site like Resident Advisor, is the more feminine aspects of the music. A lot of PC Music stuff is inherently feminine and even queer at times, These monochromatic bros think electronic music should be taken "seriously," and equate seriousness with aggressive, roughneck masculinity. They can't deal with any of this, they short-circuit.
Which is part of why I love PC Music so damn much.
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a_M
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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h8ers
Oct 10, 2014 13:17:37 GMT
Post by a_M on Oct 10, 2014 13:17:37 GMT
I honestly feel a big deal of the backlash, especially on a site like Resident Advisor, is the more feminine aspects of the music. A lot of PC Music stuff is inherently feminine and even queer at times, These monochromatic bros think electronic music should be taken "seriously," and equate seriousness with aggressive, roughneck masculinity. They can't deal with any of this, they short-circuit. Which is part of why I love PC Music so damn much. Agreed. It sort of reminds me of the backlash against Disco (ie. Disco Demolition Night) and how music which has feminine or queer connotations has to be 'made safe' for certain audiences (http://harvardpolitics.com/books-arts/the-bro-ification-of-dubstep/).
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h8ers
Oct 10, 2014 19:08:18 GMT
Post by ¬ on Oct 10, 2014 19:08:18 GMT
I honestly feel a big deal of the backlash, especially on a site like Resident Advisor, is the more feminine aspects of the music. A lot of PC Music stuff is inherently feminine and even queer at times, These monochromatic bros think electronic music should be taken "seriously," and equate seriousness with aggressive, roughneck masculinity. They can't deal with any of this, they short-circuit. Which is part of why I love PC Music so damn much. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ i tend not to think about them because it's usually this
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Post by Keith_Courage on Oct 10, 2014 19:12:03 GMT
There wasn't really a huge backlash against PC until Hey QT came out. I think a lot of people were fascinated with PC in the beginning for the way they were messing around with common pop tropes and injecting very inventive and experimental production into them. But also some people thought PC Music was just parodying pop music and that this collective were a bunch of experimental pranksters trying to get a cheap laugh from people. (they're wrong on that)
And I think Hey QT really made those same people uncomfortable because of the innocent and deadpan vibe of the song which confounded most people's expectations (something PC does well) and then they got nervous and thought "hey maybe this is still a joke, but now the joke is on me" and they condemned it. Tons of people think PC Music is some cheeky joke project of some guys purposefully trying to make pop that's just too 'out-there' for people to actually enjoy (of course they couldn't be more wrong). I see PC Music as a bunch of guys/girls that love pop music and have great audio production chops just having fun and trying to make music that they're psyched on.
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h8ers
Oct 10, 2014 21:10:26 GMT
¬ likes this
Post by lord on Oct 10, 2014 21:10:26 GMT
also feel like people see pcmus as smug ironic millennials making something 'better than' pop. a lot of their catalog is unimaginable in terms of being marketed as pop (dont wanna, kiss, carrion, a lot of the really stacatto plinky stuff they put out), too extreme in some dimension to fit cleanly. i don't see a lot of irony in most of the pcmus roster, not that intent matters much anyways, but the industry commentary people see in it seems to drive a lot of criticism, particularly what i'm reading in RA comments.
i love to think about this stuff and maybe it's hard to ignore if you dont want to, but the music seems to stand on its own as very well produced and written, i dont think my feelings would change a lot if this stuff began entering the mainstream. its just music moved around to explore certain aesthetics and approaches more deeply, i share their hatred for that certain brand of cultural irony but i dont see it as central or even present in the music. tricky thing is how our cultural dislike of smugness causes us to label sincere efforts towards expression as mocking and dishonest, slap the label of 'hipster' onto things with unique identities to silence them
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h8ers
May 3, 2015 19:37:50 GMT
Post by loukessler on May 3, 2015 19:37:50 GMT
Is Alex Macpherson the 'journalist' who wrote that long piece about how future brown suck and are lame? I don't really like FB but was a huge long exposé about how they suck necessary? And I think he went on to criticize pc music and generalize all of the people in it as socialist or something. That type of review makes me not want to read sites like fact anymore. Dude sounds like the epitome of a RA nerd who only listens to "serious-dance-music". yawn. Maybe the RA crowd think its trivializing their whole aesthetic or something?
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h8ers
May 3, 2015 19:54:11 GMT
Post by banginbangin on May 3, 2015 19:54:11 GMT
Electronic music has some of the most opinionated cunts around.
That's how you explain it.
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Post by loukessler on May 3, 2015 20:11:35 GMT
I guess when not much else is going on in your life holding on to your opinions is one way to derive meaning from things.
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Post by champiness on May 4, 2015 2:51:28 GMT
Is Alex Macpherson the 'journalist' who wrote that long piece about how future brown suck and are lame? I don't really like FB but was a huge long exposé about how they suck necessary? And I think he went on to criticize pc music and generalize all of the people in it as socialist or something. That type of review makes me not want to read sites like fact anymore. Dude sounds like the epitome of a RA nerd who only listens to "serious-dance-music". yawn. Maybe the RA crowd think its trivializing their whole aesthetic or something? I actually know a bit about Alex Macpherson, as he's a part of some discussion circles I skirt around the edges of. He posts as "Lex" on the "I Love Music" board at ilxor.com, which I occasionally check because it's full of well-versed pop critics who know a bunch about music with a minimum of snootiness. I hadn't really considered him one of the snoots before, and even now I'm not really convinced that's the case - but I do think it speaks to a larger state of exhaustion in the community he represents that he took this sort of stance. You can see the early makings of his eventual PC Music declarations from the Future Brown review (which I tracked down here) in the ILX thread about PC Music (cmd-f "Lex" for easy reading). It's a very contentious thread, with lots of the typical complaints ("it's a bunch of guy producers exploiting women's images", "they secretly hate pop", etc.), and I actually made sort of an overemotional attempt at refuting those (+ while I won't take credit for it, I'm happy to say that the thread took a much more positive turn after that), but Lex's complaint is a little more nuanced. He's not some RA underground-dweller; actually, most of his concerns seem to be about their relationship to pop music - which is, in his eyes, essentially a parasitic one. That's the thrust of his Future Brown assessment: the entire scene is made up of art-school kids slumming it in the pop world, not holding "contempt" for it necessarily, but strolling in, rearranging the furniture without consent, and acting like their "deconstructive" arrangement was a necessary improvement. He isn't concerned that they're "socialists" (I think he introduced the possibility primarily to chastise them for not living up to it). On the contrary, he seems to think they're arch-capitalists acting out the music industry's worst traits in miniature and using theory to justify it. And this isn't an entirely invalid argument against accelerationism, though I've yet to see the words "accelerationism" come out of the mouth of any PC Music affiliate (unless thinkpiece authors qualify as "affiliates"). If I genuinely believed that A.G. Cook & Co. wanted to become CEOs so they could run the company into the ground, I'd probably agree with him. But I really don't think that's the case. At the heart of this is his take on the quote from A.G.'s Tank interview - that "overwhelming, extravagant, and banal" is A.G.'s precious mental construction of pop's positive qualities that he's going to step in and exaggerate so that it's more palatable to the Pitchfork crowd and therefore Better. As opposed to, you know, actual attributes of pop music that he admires and wants to emulate. Lex seems to think that PC Music enjoy their brief little jaunts into pop, but would never accept it on its own terms... that, in other words, what they want is a world where pop belongs to them, along with everything else they've got. This line of thinking would probably focus on the bit in the Tank interview where A.G. talks about his vacillating taste, subsuming what he's doing now into a list that could potentially include street art or a Fatboy Slim internship (which quite frankly I wouldn't be opposed to). And I'm not going to say this line of thought is totally invalid - it's not as if these people are "incorrect" for not liking PC Music or something. I'm not even implying there's something wrong with their ideology - as I said earlier if I experienced PC Music the way they apparently do I'd probably be making pretty similar arguments about dilettantism and class issues and whatnot. But as someone who gets a real thrill out of this label and lots of the surrounding experience (including this board, honestly) I'd focus on something A.G. says just before, about the importance of "keeping momentum going with everything that's happening right now". In my eyes the real ethos of PC Music is about honestly examining your own personal proclivities in regards to music and style and even personality, and seeing where it can slot in and what it can contribute to the surrounding cultural narrative. So "self-aware", but in the "this is what I want to be!" sense rather than "what I am is ridiculous!". And when you take pop seriously, seriously enough to want to embody it in the very essence of what you are, to be subsumed into it, I don't think any resultant quirks are a subversion so much as a personal mark, an indicator of what you're bringing to the process. In my eyes this is the world PC Music want: one where they - possibly we - belong to pop. Of course, I can't say that this is for certain what the PC Music team thinks. I could probably point to some tweets and interview snippets that support my stance, same as Lex, but I don't have a byline to A.G. Cook's soul or anyone else's. This probably says more about myself than anything PC Music specifically brought to the table. But they were the ones who made me see those things in myself. So I hope mister Macpherson doesn't mind if I side with the other Alex. P.S. I think I'd be remiss in not repeating the stunt from my florid ILX apologia and dedicating this little rant to Marcello Carlin, who as I state there has sworn off ILX, probably for the better. If you want to know how I learned to get so verbose about silly pop songs / who to blame for it, you should really check out his blog where he reviews every UK #1 album.
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igniz
New Member
Posts: 49
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Post by igniz on May 4, 2015 2:55:31 GMT
Yeah, what people here are saying about it basically being a rejection of the feminine etc aspect is pretty much it I think
although, I tend to see it a bit different - it's not so much about a gender thing as it is that a lot of people in the dance world and a lot of music fans in general actually basically equate bouncy/silly/fun with "dumb" and since they of course are not "dumb" they listen to "smart" things, "smart" music is more sober in it's tone, and emphasis is placed on.. sounding "grown up"/SERIOUS, technical virtuosity - but ONLY insofar as it pertains to using REAL instruments/hardware/analog synths etc, and of course subtlety - bonus for lo-fi/"raw" production aesthetic. So when the outlets that usually cover their "smart" music are giving sensationalist at best press left right and center to a label who's sound and image is fantastical,bouncy, produced completely in-the-box and ultra HD, anything but subtle, could easily be interpreted as juvenile or sounding like something from a kid's show etc, then the response of course is very negative. It goes without saying that I think their output to this point has by and large been brilliant and some of the most cognitively stimulating music put out in the past couple years but that's my theory as to where a lot of the hate originates
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 3:51:17 GMT
champiness, I agree with you so much AH! What you're saying at the end about why you really like PC Music is very relatable to me. Especially with the girls of PC Music (but the guys too!), it's so inspiring looking at all of their different personalities/aesthetics/music and seeing how it (at least from what we get to see) reflects so much on themselves/what they want to be. That's why I truly hate people saying what they're doing is ironic! PC Music very much gives me a "self-expression" vibe through a lot of what they do. Pop music is a great way to do it because there is no one thing that defines pop music! The genres pop music fits into changes with the years so it's really this huge blanket-term where you can go in so many different directions. I do, however, kiiiinda get the whole privileged art student vibe from them because a lot of people dream of the opportunity to express themselves in such extravagant ways but only have the resources/abilities/situation to write in a journal/draw/listen to other peoples music etc.
I also have to say that I think gender DEFINITELY plays a role in PC Music criticism. Pop music is one field of music that generally is dominated by females and it's clear that people enjoying these female artists and embracing femininity/embracing pop music makes indie internet hipster bros uncomfortable. This is kinda ignoring the fact of all the gendered stereotypes that I personally think are put into PC Music. I don't think PC Music's embracing of femininity is all-too groundbreaking because the differences between the female and male artists is so stereotypically gendered lol. On the surface level though, having females (singing pop music of all things) be able to break-through in the culture of internet music and be on Pitchfork and shit like that goes against all that indie rock has built the past years with all of the groups of white men singing "dream pop indie shoegaze". That's the only amount of pop that they wanted to be allowed lmfao!
EDIT: I also really want to disagree with PC Music being a satire of the music industry. I really see nothing satirical with the way PC Music functions. Like I love PC Music but they ARE doing what the music industry does. If QT is "satire" A. G. Cook and SOPHIE are exposing themselves (and not in a good way) as much as they're exposing anyone else in my opinion. The way SOPHIE answers interviews always makes me uncomfortable the way he talks about identity. I could maybe see the satire in how they've brought pop music into underground internet music culture; however, the way they talk about truly enjoying it makes me not think that aspect of them is satirical. If they truly wanted to be satirical and not just further all the stereotypes they're "making fun of" I feel like they'd be more outrageous and flip/bend gender roles and things like that. If I was to find out that they themselves think what they're doing is some genius satire of the music industry I would be very very disappointed.
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deathworld
Junior Member
what are the haps my friends
Posts: 98
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Post by deathworld on May 4, 2015 4:13:44 GMT
Champiness I have to thank you for being so insightful on all of this. Took some balls to wade into the trenches on ILX and say all that. But I totally agree, especially with what you said about EDM vs "the splinters". I think you're dead on the money that PC music is an embracing of everything that people hate about EDM and chartpop, and what's neat is that because there's so many people with a narrow view of what good music is, there's an awful lot of rich, stimulating territory that not many people are willing to explore. I HOPE that this is a turning point where the relationship between grey, dull-sounding dance music and serious artistic talent begins to break down, and I'm so excited to be on the leading edge of it with PC and you guys.
Igniz what you're saying also totally resonates with me, I think there's definitely an element of sexism to a lot of the criticism so far. People are uncomfortable with women and men who challenge traditional gender roles making music that appears to be so populist. We want our women sexy and our gays and queers deep, deep underground.
I can also understand all the controversy so far though. The aesthetic and everything is completely based on a co-opting of everything people thought was ugly, unappealing, and unsubtle about music, art, and culture in the digital age. Any reversal that radical is bound to have people up in arms. For our part, I'm glad that we've been having level-headed discussions about all of this because there's really no point getting wound up if the music doesn't appeal to someone. It's not for everyone, you know!
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deathworld
Junior Member
what are the haps my friends
Posts: 98
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Post by deathworld on May 4, 2015 4:20:44 GMT
Haha shitdog I didn't see your post but I feel like we're saying the same thing!
I disagree on your point about satire though, I don't think you can really look at GFOTY's persona and music and tell me she isn't being satirical or ironic. PC Music is a really diverse group of artists and they all work in slightly different ways. There are definitely elements of satire in some of their output, but also elements of true sincerity. It's not a binary issue where they have to be one or the other. I feel like in some ways their over the top embracing of commercial music industry tropes is definitely satire, but at the same time they have a real relationship with RBMA that helps them get stuff done. Some stereotypical music industry things they do scan like satire, but other ones like AG's practice of artistic development and Hannah's genuine love of airbrushing are pretty central to the label's songwriting success and aesthetic presentation.
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