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Post by friopi on Jun 9, 2015 16:08:44 GMT
Yeah, I agree that "appropriation" is really a neutral concept that could be good or bad depending on the context. Although there are certainly other scenarios in which cultural appropriation can be really harmful despite not being employed for financial gain, ie when it reduces the source culture to terrible stereotypes and promotes misinformation.
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Post by loukessler on Jun 9, 2015 16:22:30 GMT
Yeah, I agree that "appropriation" is really a neutral concept that could be good or bad depending on the context. Although there are certainly other scenarios in which cultural appropriation can be really harmful despite not being employed for financial gain, ie when it reduces the source culture to terrible stereotypes and promotes misinformation. The only example I can think of this would be something like blackface? And I guess that would be true, but I think that is more used to dehumanize and mock as opposed to used in an artistic fashion. |
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Post by twigs on Jun 9, 2015 16:25:24 GMT
edit: nah fuck it lets all wear indian headdresses to the next event we go to
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Post by ninjapresident on Jun 9, 2015 17:49:09 GMT
I can see why everyone is getting offended (and rightfully so), but I still think that it was an important comment for her to make BECAUSE of those reasons. I live in the Southern U.S., and I hear a lot of comments like this on a daily basis said completely seriously. I think we NEED to make a joke of this behavior, because I think that's the only true way to get rid of it; outrage only gives people further motivation (on both sides), while I think mockery (and subsequently, humor) deflates it.
It bothers me that people aren't willing to talk about the real elephant in the room. And I think it's a bit ridiculous that we're so quick to throw someone under the bus when this behavior goes all around us unchecked.
Edit: I do feel like the PC Music response was a bit harsh. I understand why they did it, but it really does feel like they were *really* trying to distance themselves from Polly. I can't say for certain if this is what is really going on behind closed doors, but I'd be really disappointed if this puts a damper on their association with her and her further musical output.
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Post by wuchi on Jun 9, 2015 18:14:51 GMT
Edit: I do feel like the PC Music response was a bit harsh. I understand why they did it, but it really does feel like they were *really* trying to distance themselves from Polly. I can't say for certain if this is what is really going on behind closed doors, but I'd be really disappointed if this puts a damper on their association with her and her further musical output. I think they did that because Lotic and others are holding all of PC Music accountable for GFOTY's remarks rather than her herself. What she said should have nothing to do with PC Music's views on race as a whole like some people are making them out to be. This happens all the time anyway: whenever a PC musician releases a new song, websites always announce it as being from PC MUSIC's so-and-so. It's part of the inevitable drama that comes with being a part of one of an online electronic music collective, I guess. |
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Post by ninjapresident on Jun 9, 2015 18:25:30 GMT
Edit: I do feel like the PC Music response was a bit harsh. I understand why they did it, but it really does feel like they were *really* trying to distance themselves from Polly. I can't say for certain if this is what is really going on behind closed doors, but I'd be really disappointed if this puts a damper on their association with her and her further musical output. I think they did that because Lotic and others are holding all of PC Music accountable for GFOTY's remarks rather than her herself. What she said should have nothing to do with PC Music's views on race as a whole like some people are making them out to be. This happens all the time anyway: whenever a PC musician releases a new song, websites always announce it as being from PC MUSIC's so-and-so. It's part of the inevitable drama that comes with being a part of one of an online electronic music collective, I guess. Ah. That does make sense. I forgot how the media tends to talk about PC's releases. |
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a_M
Junior Member
Posts: 62 
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Post by a_M on Jun 9, 2015 20:24:39 GMT
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Post by arlo on Jun 9, 2015 23:23:35 GMT
Shout out to Le1f for being the only person who had a level-headed response to this. He deleted the initial tweets after GFOTY apologized, but kept the ones where he explained really well how appropriation could be problematic, which I feel like was the discussion GFOTY was trying to start. twitter.com/le1fnyAs he said, "inspired by, ripping off and appropriating are all synonyms depending on who you're talking to", and when Vampire Weekend/Dirty Projectors/Tune-Yards get acclaim for elements of their music that has been present in West/Central African music for decades, it presents a risk of erasing the cultures it borrows from. This problem is more rooted from how society consumes art and tends to not pay attention to minority voices within it than with the bands themselves, but still someone has to tread carefully when taking cultural elements in the way these bands do (and I'm saying this as a fan of all these bands). And needless to say, what GFOTY was saying was shitty, and her clarifying her intentions didn't do anything to make it make it better. She did apologize though, and it's not like she has a history of saying racist shit, there's no reason for this uproar except for pageviews and publicity. Sidenote: it's fascinating how Lotic's Statement,Grossmary and Kamixlo dropping out of Dog Food, GFOTY's apology, and Le1f's tweets all happened within like an hour of each other. |
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Post by loukessler on Jun 9, 2015 23:39:20 GMT
I guess I never really thought of PCM as satire or ironic. Obviously GFOTY and other's in pcm are not completely "serious" (serious dance music, lol :-I ) but I never thought of it as "WE ARE BEING IRONIC, ITS A JOKE HAHA GET IT? It's the same way someone can play a character in a movie, I guess. Yes its a character (caricature) but that doesn't mean its not serious.
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deathworld
Junior Member
what are the haps my friends
Posts: 98
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Post by deathworld on Jun 10, 2015 6:18:34 GMT
OK guys I'm late to this little party but seriously it kind of weirds me out how apologetic some people have been. I fucking love GFOTY but Polly hasn't developed the wherewithal to realize that everything she says and does is being watched now. Comments like this might be funny between friends but despite our love for the music this is pretty unacceptable shit.
As a community we can be pretty sensitive, mistaking any criticism of PC music as criticism of our own taste or criticism of one member's actions as criticism of the group. I think we need to realize that PC artists are human, this is a pretty gross mistake, and we can go on loving the music in general without seeing attacks on GFOTY's extreme behaviour as attacks on PC music or us.
On the other hand, this is extra fodder for those who want to bundle dismissals of PC music alongside their criticism. I firmly believe this is a generation gap issue and while young people will be put off by GFOTY's words, the dismissal of the music as "ironic" is besides the point and actually flat-out wrong. There's no reason that this kind of music can't be inclusive.
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Post by loukessler on Jun 10, 2015 15:28:16 GMT
As a community we can be pretty sensitive, mistaking any criticism of PC music as criticism of our own taste or criticism of one member's actions as criticism of the group. I think we need to realize that PC artists are human, this is a pretty gross mistake, and we can go on loving the music in general without seeing attacks on GFOTY's extreme behaviour as attacks on PC music or us. On the other hand, this is extra fodder for those who want to bundle dismissals of PC music alongside their criticism. I firmly believe this is a generation gap issue and while young people will be put off by GFOTY's words, the dismissal of the music as "ironic" is besides the point and actually flat-out wrong. There's no reason that this kind of music can't be inclusive. me: *takes all criticism of PCM as a personal attack.*  LEAVE PCM ALONE!!  Seriously though, its crazy how something that you would say between friends becomes a reason to completely 'boycott' a person and view them as less of a person. "Oh you still listen to GFOTY? You must be a neo-nazi..." I'm not excusing her but the level of scrutiny on people, even with minor celebrity status, is kind of nuts. what a time to be alive.  |
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Post by rampface on Jun 10, 2015 17:50:44 GMT
I make black and white jokes all the time but that doesn't make me racist. I have black family members. I have black friends. We all joke together. Some people just look for reasons to start a argument.
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Post by itsallsosimple on Jun 10, 2015 21:16:38 GMT
I really do respect PCM's view of musicianship through individualized persona's that act as separate entities from who they are in real life.
My problem is that it's a huge fucking cop out to say that GFOTY is just portraying a racist caricature with the intent of bringing awareness to real race issues especially when POC are clearly offended by it. Sure maybe all of this controversy was Polly's intention, but there is no way for her to really defend those actions as herself or as GFOTY without completely shattering the foundation of PC Music. And if you cannot really explain this intent, you are just going to be labeled as a racist- neither of which really benefit the character or the label as a whole.
If she was really acting as a "character" and purposely released those messages, it's no different from someone playing a racist character on a television show. Except, you would be offended as POC watching a racist character on a show when there is no moment of catharsis or overall lesson to be learned.
The only way this "intent" could be viewed as beneficial is if PCM is planning to be a short lived label with a structured "rise and tragic fall" narrative, in which the "characters" just get consistently shittier until people realize that even though specific artists may have mass appeal, it doesn't mean it excuses their offensive behavior. I only think of this because the whole "feminine appropriation" went pretty unnoticed but now that you add "racial appropriation" to list it just seems a tad formulated on their behalf. I don't necessarily believe this but I would respect it.
I feel like this is the beginning of the end for PC- not the artists themselves, but the characters. I don't think PC ever anticipated that they would blow up so quickly and are struggling to build an identity around a project they just started for themselves, as themselves.
I still love PC Music, though its becoming increasingly more difficult to do so.
and part of me thinks that Polly just got really drunk at a concert and said some racist shit. The world may never know.
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Post by ¬ on Jun 10, 2015 21:32:15 GMT
I really do respect PCM's view of musicianship through individualized persona's that act as separate entities from who they are in real life. My problem is that it's a huge fucking cop out to say that GFOTY is just portraying a racist caricature with the intent of bringing awareness to real race issues especially when POC are clearly offended by it. Sure maybe all of this controversy was Polly's intention, but there is no way for her to really defend those actions as herself or as GFOTY without completely shattering the foundation of PC Music. And if you cannot really explain this intent, you are just going to be labeled as a racist- neither of which really benefit the character or the label as a whole. [etc - didn't want to take up the page by quoting the whole post] I'm not really sure what you're getting act, because the texts in question have absolutely nothing to do with PC Music. They didn't tell her to say that, and the article wasn't attributed to them, she just fucked up on her own terms. The lumping in of what she says and the whole label is a very dangerous thing to do. And both GFOTY and PC Music have (quite rightly) "broken character" to acknowledge that this is wrong and shouldn't've happened. Which isn't the mark of a purposeful move, and is just about all you can do.  |
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Post by rampface on Jun 10, 2015 21:35:32 GMT
Pretty sure this will be forgotten in the coming months when the artists release more music. I'll say it again... this is some silly shit. Uptight people looking for reasons to be uptight.
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LEAVE PCM ALONE!! 
